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Australian Political Debate
There are more than two parties 
24th-Nov-2007 10:02 am
The election is today, and you better all vote ... unless you were going to select a crappy party, in which case feel free to drop your blank forms in the ballot boxes.

So, who are you voting for?

I'd like to remind you that if you vote other than Greens or Democrats, you are telling the government that you think that a large portion of the population do not deserve the rights of full, first class, citizens. This includes your friends, your relatives, your (future) children, your workmates and your neighbours. And it's more than a superficial ceremony, it's rights; rights to marry for one, rights to guardianship of your children, financial rights (including taxes and inheritance), military placement rights, the right to visit a loved one in hospital (currently even if you've been their partner for the last 30 years their 'real family' can prevent you seeing them), make legal decisions on the behalf of your partner. These are not one-day-in-a-lifetime things, these are everyday rights of real importance.

Frankly marriage is one of my bottom priorities, I really care more about the right to look after my own children as everyone else can, when I have them, as well as being able to look after my partner.

No, putting the Greens (or Democrats) first on your House of Representatives ballot won't make them the leading party, and your vote will go to your second preference, but it shows whoever is in charge that they will get votes if they have more 'progressive' policies. They don't have these policies now because they think you wont vote for them, or that they don't need to, because you'll vote for them no matter what.

Voting 1 to the Greens or Democrats in the senate (white ballot) will however give them real power.

I'm not too concerned as to whether you vote Democrats or Greens, I feel my interests more expressed in the policies of the Greens, and feel they have a better chance of getting in, but who you choose is a matter of preference. However, if you're voting for a party that denies the rights of so many, including myself, that is highly offensive, and I would like to hear your justification for it.

Of course there are a multitude of other reasons to not vote for Liberal or Labor; They have similar work choices policy, they both support the infantilising treatment of aboriginals, they don't really care about the environment (and Peter Garret has no power) shown by their support of new coal mines, and continued uranium mining, the pulp mill, they want tax cuts rather than services, and don't really care about healthcare or education. They Greens aren't just a hippy dippy group for hugging trees, they do have excellent social policies.

The Greens are actually passionate about their policies, and don't feel the need to lie. Who knows what Liberal or Labor will bring out when they're in power?

24th-Nov-2007 01:06 am (UTC)
I voted for Philip Nitschke! Dems and Greens got 2 & 3. I couldn't vote Liberal last though, damn Family First running here :(
24th-Nov-2007 02:19 am (UTC)
I think that some of the smaller booths in Richmond are going to have a high green vote! Clunes and Goonangarry.. it will be interesting to see how it pans out though.

A lot of people I know support greens but are voting labor as (and I quote) "I would kill myself if the current government got back in".
24th-Nov-2007 02:22 am (UTC)

But... if they put Labor 2nd it would have the same effect! :(
24th-Nov-2007 02:41 am (UTC)
I know! I basically say to people, if you have thought about what you are doing, I am not going to tell you how to vote. I give greens my primary because that sends a message that a) the issues are important and b) it is more than a 2 party system.

but I am just happy when people have put thought into who they are voting for, even if it doesn't align with me!

Most of the people handing out HTV were cool - dems and nats. The labor lady was SCARY!
24th-Nov-2007 02:58 am (UTC)
There were no Greenies at my poll place. :(
there were some Labor people, a Liberal (to whom I said "Ah, no. I get enough of that crap in my mail" when he tried to hand me a HTV thing) and a Christian Democrat (to whom I said "NO" flatly when he tried to give me his crap).

It was filled with Labor and Liberal posters. There was 1 poster for the Greens. :(
24th-Nov-2007 03:04 am (UTC)
I was there with my mum and dad, so there were more people for the greens than any other party!

it is just interesting. This used to be Nationals heartland. And the seat I am in (Richmond, it was Page, but boundary changes etc etc) is a marginal held by Labor.

It is interesting how the voters behave. We aren't very pushy really, and I believe most people go there with their minds already made up!
24th-Nov-2007 03:21 am (UTC)
Thanks, you've convinced me not to put the Greens anywhere near the top of my ballot paper.

1. The Greens are insane.
2. One issue voting is fucking stupid.

I don't appreciate being talked to in this manner.
24th-Nov-2007 03:30 am (UTC)
Well there are plenty of other issues, hence my link to the policies page.

How are the Greens insane?
24th-Nov-2007 03:43 am (UTC)
1. They have extreme radical policies that server only their ideological agenda with little regard for practicality or pragmatism.

2. I know you talked about other policies, but you're basically saying we're bad people if we don't vote for the Greens or Democrats because we'd be voting against gay marriage. It's a minor issue and, at this present moment in time, a pipedream. Pretty much every other issue is far, far more important, and that's what people should be voting on. Don't sidetrack them with your own self-interest guilt trips.
24th-Nov-2007 03:47 am (UTC)
1. Their policies are actually well backed with data. They have plans. For instance, their dental plan could be entirely funded by that stupid $4 tax cut the government gave us.

2. In case you missed it, I said marriage is really one of the minor issues, it's the RIGHTS, a lot of them. & I am terribly saddened if you think rights are a minor issue and a pipedream.
24th-Nov-2007 03:57 am (UTC)
1. They have no idea how to actually govern and none of their policies will ever see the light of day. They may have some good ones, but there is a critical mass of loony or at least radical ones that reasonable, pragmatic and moderate people like myself can't abide by. It's more important to look at what they might do in the Senate, because that's the only place they might have relevance.

2. I know what you said. I read between the lines. You're gay, and you so desperately want to have the same rights as everyone else, so you're guilt tripping the rest of us into supporting your interests, saying we're offensive and bad people if we don't. I take offence to that. Such personal attacks are not a legitimate strategy and only serve to piss me off. Economy, Defence, Education, Social Security, Health. These are the issues that matter, the rest is a comparative sideshow.

People know there are more than two parties, they just aren't worth voting for.
24th-Nov-2007 04:09 am (UTC)
1. Proof?
And yes, the senate is where it counts most at the moment.

2. Well people have different oppinions on financial policy etc, but I would have thought that they supported rights, and thus it was a common rallying point. They're not my interests, they're the intrests of a few thousand people in this country, and they effect my friends more than me personally. If you're guilt tripped, then it's because you beleive that that is the right thing to do. If you were fine with saying 'yup, second class citizenship all the way!' it wouldn't be an issue. I', just clarifying what you are voting for.

And yeah, damn, how selfish wanting equal rights. Damn all those selfish black people in the 60s. & I'd be just as strong on this issue when I have a boyfriend as when I have a girlfriend. It's a matter of what is right to do.
24th-Nov-2007 04:37 am (UTC)
1. Opposition to just about everything nuclear or uranium for a start. The preference of environment over absolutely everything, their drugs policies, etc etc.

2. You're not getting the point. Voting for a party that doesn't currently want to give gays full rights does not mean you don't support them having them. That's stupid and fradulent logic. It's just that we think, on balance, other issues are more important, and benefit a much greater number of people. A few thousand verses millions? Seriously.
24th-Nov-2007 01:08 pm (UTC)
1. Yeah, not supporting uranium is extreme, unlike Chernobyl...
Their drugs policies are similar to those in countries that have reduced drug addiction. Seriously, are you getting your policy information from the Daily Telegraph "OMGZ! The Greens want drug vending-machines in our schoolz!!1!"?
The environment is not preferenced over everything, just it isn't right at the bottom of the list- they don't see the logic in providing government subsidies for a pulp mill so it looks like it has far more profits than it does.

2. Sure, if Greens was your only vote, but it goes on to your preferences, so why not show your support? I think everyone benefits from equality, but in any case, they're not a one policy party, and their health, education, migration etc. policies help millions.
25th-Nov-2007 01:13 am (UTC)
1. Nuclear power is at present the only viable supplement to coal and any opposition to it is blatant scaremongering. Modern reactors can't physically melt down like Chernobyl and we have a lot of empty space to stash the waste. Australia needs sensible drug policies, and decriminalisation was never the answer. If anything we need stronger penalties for drug dealers and more comprehensive rehabilitation programs for addicts. The environment is all they talk about publically, it clearly where their top priority lies. See, none of their policies are based on moderation or rationality - a party liek that can never be taken seriously like the old school Democrats were.

2. Because I don't want to show my support? You put 1 in the box next to the party you like the most, not the one you want to give token support to. Labor has much better policies on the important issues that affect more people, so they are the best party and therefore deserve the #1 preference. And not everyone benefits from equality, only the minority who feel they are oppressed do - that's the whole point.
25th-Nov-2007 09:21 am (UTC)
1. Yep, no other methods. Australia was leading the way in solar power and environmentally friendly energy solutions, but no, lets strip all the funding from that.
Decriminalisation works. Working currently in Scandinavian countries.
Yup, empty space to stash the waste... which will still be there and dangerous after humans are extinct, nice. In Mexico they've tried to construct a structure that will look threatening to future civilisations, because the waste will still be dangerous then.

2. Yup, having happy minorities who don't feel the need to rebel doesn't benefit the whole populous.
For instance the current problem in the Northern Territory. We're now spending heaps of money to fix the problems there, making sure petrol stations don't have sniffable petrol, I think actually helping those people would benefit all - we wouldn't be wasting tax payers money on band-aid solutions and they could productively contribute to society.
24th-Nov-2007 09:43 am (UTC)
but there is a critical mass of loony or at least radical ones
...unlike Liberals? Are you fucking kidding me?
24th-Nov-2007 12:30 pm (UTC)
i honestly don't see what's so loony about the greens' policies.
24th-Nov-2007 01:00 pm (UTC)
No, neither do I.
25th-Nov-2007 12:34 am (UTC)
That will serve you right for getting your information from policy brochures, rather than Murdoch papers like most normal people.

Crazy freaks.
25th-Nov-2007 01:03 am (UTC)
Not unlike the Liberals :)
24th-Nov-2007 05:26 am (UTC)
Geez, I did vote Greens and this post pisses me off.

Lefties who declare that anyone who doesn't agree completely with them is a monster are equally as obnoxious as all those righties who declare that anyone who doesn't agree completely with them is a moron. It's the same smug self-righteousness, and there's too much of it.
24th-Nov-2007 09:47 am (UTC)
Unlike righties, this post is declaring that those who don't want others to have RIGHTS are (in your words) monsters.
It's not about "you don't agree with me", it's "you think some people should be second class citizens". There's a major difference.
25th-Nov-2007 12:37 am (UTC)
Yeah, there is, but the way you put it just gets people off side. It's attitudes like this within the Green party that are severely hampering it.

Take Bob Brown for example. He's FANTASTIC for those already Green people, but nearly everyone else in the country sees him as a fringe lunatic (thanks to his portrayal by the media). I got my dad to sit down and watch the policy launch he made when the big boys were debating, and at the end of that he still said "fringe lunatic" because that's the image that is firmly burnt in his head.

He needs to be an activist, or the leader of a political party, you can't do both without damaging the other. He's been fantastic for the Greens, but the sooner he goes and is left to be an idol from the past to be revered, respected and remembered, the better off the Greens will be, electorally.
25th-Nov-2007 12:43 am (UTC)
... I didn't write the post.

And I disagree with you saying Bob Brown should leave.
but yes I understand that he is seen as a hippy (especially thanks to various media sources), but that isn't going to change with the changing of leaders. The idea that Greens=extremist hippies is firmly embedded in peoples' minds that the most conservative of people could lead it but still be seen as a lunatic.
25th-Nov-2007 01:14 am (UTC)
Damn straight.
25th-Nov-2007 08:54 am (UTC)
iawtc (except i didn't vote greens in the house)
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